I agree with everything you said. Political agenda aside, you are writing what you want to write and not to appease the market (Somewhat) You can't make all the people happy all of the time. Too much sex, not enough sex, the use of the word cock or calling a penis his member (I still get a giggle outa that one)
The people who choose to read your books should already be going into it with a pretty open mind, so why get hung up on wordage, race or any other particularity. It's erotica for goodness sakes. Enjoy it!

Sheesh, some people take themselves much too seriously. It's a work of erotic fiction, designed to entertain, not educate, or facilitate some woman's self esteem reclamation.

Write what you want, what you like, and what your editor will publish. Otherwise, I probably wouldn't want to read it.

SdB

I agree. I don't like the clinical terms either. I mean, is it sex or is it a gynecological exam?

I agree too, Eden. You're telling your story in your way in your voice, why should you have to comply with other people's agendas?

I agree with everything you said! The word vagina is soooo boring. Blah, it makes me feel like I'm back in sex ed. Um...thanks but no thanks! Fiction is a form of entertainment and has nothing to do with furthering political agendas. And seriously why did the heroin have to be a woman of color? What did that have to do with anything? I think people write about what they know best. So if you're not a woman or man of color why should you be expected to write about one and vice versa. Seriously, some people just take themselves way too seriously. (Ha I just said seriously like 8 times in the same paragraph. Someone needs to work on her editing.)

I agree too. Vagina is not sexy. Never will be. I realize that many authors write books in order to 'teach', to make a statement or convey some deep meaning that they want others to understand and share. I don't read those books. I want to enjoy myself when I read and kudos for not 'reclaiming' anything.

Actually, I found the implied racism somewhat amusing. I mean, if the heroes were men of color, then the implication that your heroines should ALSO be women of color is a little ... segregationist. Why do they have their grubby terrorist hands on pure white American women! Go repress your own culture!

Other than that, the word vagina is just icky. And if you're not called to write feminist vagina fiction, then you shouldn't do it. You're an extraordinary smut writer, though. *gg* Go with your strengths!

Gee...while we are at it, how come your characters weren't lesbians? Why did they need a man to fulfill them?

You can't please everyone, nor would you really want to because how boring would that be? I think particular types of feminists limit themselves by focusing too specifically on their pet interests. Human beings are diverse and fascinating creatures, celebrate that! Who cares if you use their term or not?!

Well, I completely agree that vagina is more clinical than I prefer in my erotica.

For the other stuff - well, I'm kind of offended. Would the reviewers have been similarly distressed if the women had represented varied racial backgrounds but the men were all Joe America (to borrow your usage)? Because to me this just SCREAMS double standard.

I rather thought the whole point of feminism was to empower women to pursue whatever fulfilled them as women. Are feminists now going to dictate what fulfills me? *mutters dire things*

I'm going home to sit on the couch, eat bon bons, and fantasize about being abducted by pirates who will sell me into bondage in a harem.

What everyone else said.
That is just ridiculous.

I also agree with you, Eden. These are fantasies, written in the language of fantasy, not anatomy class. And we certainly can't be everything to all readers - especially all in one book! Honestly, sometimes people just have to complain about something!

The only person I have a responsibility too in my writing is myself.

I choose to write women and men of color or have characters of different ethnic heritages as my main characters. But that's my preference. It's not to say I won't write non-ethnic characters (cause I also write inter-racial stories too).

There are plenty women/people of color in erotica, erotic romance, erotic fiction and books in general both in print and e-pub. People just have to look, if that's what they want to read.

And I don't like clinical terms. Books are fantasy, fictional not text books or medical exams.

The writer has to write what she feels is best for that particular book or story and not cater to others agendas.

I think vagina is too clinical as well. For some reason I like pussy too and her sex -it depends whom I 'm writing for as to which way it goes :)
Sometimes I fear feminism has been highjacked. I thought it was about supporting all women's choices, so if I want to read/write erotic romance novels and fantasize about getting locked up in a harem that should be okay, right? Apparently not...it's FANTASY right?

Readers who want to see something in fiction that they aren't getting from current offerings should write their own. Really, let those reviewers write erotica and make the word "vagina" sexy.

Lordy knows what they'd think of me and my fondness for words like "twat" and "cunt" in addition to the oh-so-vulgar "pussy." Blech!

As long as human beings get excited by the dangerous and the forbidden, erotica can never be politically correct--and it shouldn't be--but that doesn't mean that every interracial pairing is some example of western imperialist cultural fetishization.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes a hot read is just, you know, a hot read.

Very interesting and I agree with what everyone's said, I can't add much more. I definitely think vagina is too clinical and not very sexy. In fact I just read a book where it was sprinkled throughout (I was thinking cos of a variety factor) and every time I came across it, it threw me right out.

Unbelievable, some of those reviewers' comments. And you definitely can't please everyone!

Just keep doing what you're doing cos I think you're fantastic. ;)

Sounds a tad racist to me to take that opinion with the heros, and seeing VAGINA everywhere would make me THROW the book with Great Force. Her Sex is one I love, I don't like Pussy at all and if the character can handle it, cunt. I Reclaimed that one myself.

Eva Gale

Bettie said:
"As long as human beings get excited by the dangerous and the forbidden, erotica can never be politically correct--and it shouldn't be--but that doesn't mean that every interracial pairing is some example of western imperialist cultural fetishization."
Yes! Thank you. I think I love you.
Oh-and the most interesting thing to me was that the feminist reviewer mentioned that she had read some of my BDSM erotica and loved it. In all of my BDSM material to date, the women submit sexually to the men. I would think that would have really ticked her off. Huh. Guess she practices her own brand of feminism, as is her right. Wonder if she'll enjoy the fem-Domme book I'm writing later this year?
Now I'm going to go sit on the couch with Elise, eat some bon bons, and and get into her pirate abduction fantasy. Nice! *G*

Amen, Eden! I admit I couldn't believe it when I saw "Va-jay-jay" on the cover of a magazine the other day in the grocery store, but that's a completely different extreme I think.

I think it's well written if it doesn't make me giggle like I was in a 5th grade sex-ed class all over again.

Vagina's for the OB/GYN's office.

I happen to find your sex scenes and your books completely, sinfully delicious - and I wouldn't change a word on them. You RAWK, Eden. And your heroes are HOT, and leave the term vagina for the gynecologist, thank you. LOL!

Wow, I never realized that the word "vagina" had to be reclaimed. I've heard that comment made about the word "cunt" (see The Vagina Monologues) and even "pussy" but never about "vagina."

Second, I totally agree with Elise. I always thought that feminism meant that I could choose whatever I wished in regards to my life, my sexuality, my thoughts, etc. I don't want some group of guys telling me what I can or can't do. But I also don't want some group of women telling me that I'm not acting like a woman. ::grrr::

Julie

I rather thought the whole point of feminism was to empower women to pursue whatever fulfilled them as women. Are feminists now going to dictate what fulfills me? *mutters dire things*

Sigh. I just think it's all incredibly silly. People will always find something to complain about, won't they?

Julie said:
'I don't want some group of guys telling me what I can or can't do. But I also don't want some group of women telling me that I'm not acting like a woman. ::grrr::'
Exactly! And it's fiction, for heaven's sake. It's not a feminist treatise.
Yes Dawn, some people do just have to find something to complain about, I swear! Uh...I guess this is my complaint today-lol!
*smooches* to Red! And no, that is not an anti-feminist act. I just like ya. ;)

Lord have mercy. Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:))
Like serioiusly. Hahhaaa. Your writing was pretty darn good then, if that's all they came up with. Vagina and color. Teeheehee. And now I have to stop, before I post a really caustic, scathing response, which will come back to bite me.
Always the same old issues, disguising themselves in one form or another. Women, sex and race.

No, I don't think the word vagina is sexy. Quite honestly, I have yet to find a name that I really like. (not sure what that says about me, but oh well.) :)
Your books are to entertain, it's erotica, not a how to on becoming a good little... you know what, I have to bite my tongue.
I don't want to be preached to about this or that when I'm reading these types of books. I just want to get caught up, and enjoy the ride. It's an escape from the norm. Keep 'em coming!
Sonnie

Eden, I couldn't agree with you more. Vagina is a clinical word. It's not sexy. There's nothing to 'reclaim' about it, IMHO. What? Are we supposed to reclaim a word used to describe the anatomy in a professional way -- and a word, I might point out, that was created from a patriachal culture.
Furthermore, I write the erotic romance fantasies I enjoy, what turns me on, with the hope it will appeal to others. I'm not here to fulfill someone else's agenda on what they believe womanhood and sexuality is, or is not. Write your own books. I say more power to all romance erotic authors. Create the story of your heart and your 'preferred' sexuality.

Huh, let's see..

Her dripping vaginal cavity begged for his attention.

Nope, not working for me. Kinda brings to mind an OB who used too much KY ;)

Let her have her opinion and you just keep on cashing your royalty checks! :)

I don't think vagina is sexy, but neither do I think it's especially unsexy. I would rather read vagina than "cunny" (what on earth?) or "crotch" (which I hate), and see nothing wrong with "her sex" (what's wrong with THAT?).

I find it rather ironic that a woman taking you to task for what she perceives is you bowing to other people's language issues - is in turn attempting to shape your language issues by her own perceptions. I'm a feminist and proud to say so, but it seems to me feminism shouldn't be about a group of women forcing another woman to use words THEY feel should be reclaimed. How is that not an attempt to control women's sexuality and creativity? It's silly and counterintuitive as well as patronizing.

If I found vagina to be sexy, I'd use it. I expect you would as well. As authors, we use words we like to use - for instance - pussy and cunt in my case and avoid those we don't (like spurt, a word I hate with a great passion!)

Sorry this is so long. It makes me shirty when people use feminism to oppress other women.

What a great topic! I think as an author you use whatever the heck word you want. And yeah, it's pretty hypocritical for feminists to tell you, a female writer, what words you should or shouldn't use. I do think "vagina" sounds clinical as well, and only use it when the character/situation calls for it. And hello, it's fantasy. Of course you put whoever you want in your stories however you want. Nothing irks me more than people telling me how to write or express myself. Amen, Eden. Again, wonderful topic. Got a lot of people thinking... :)

Marie

Lauren said:
'...but it seems to me feminism shouldn't be about a group of women forcing another woman to use words THEY feel should be reclaimed. How is that not an attempt to control women's sexuality and creativity? It's silly and counterintuitive as well as patronizing.'
My thoughts exactly! It reeks of the same stink as when people use religion as an excuse to attack other people. Totally hypocritical.
I do sometimes edit language in my books to adhere to my editor's preferences, but she's the one who decides whether or not I get a paycheck. Some people may see that as selling out-I see it as something simple I am perfectly willing to do without feeling that I've compromised my integrity. I'd rather be published with a few very minor limitations than to have all my books sitting in a drawer where no one will ever see them.
IMO, it's this sort of silliness spouting that makes other feminists-and women-look bad. Is she entitled to her opinion? Sure. But don't put me down because I don't think-or write-the way you want me to. Her remarks had absolutely nothing to do with the quality of my writing, and it was supposed to be a book review, wasn't it?

Eesh, as a card carrying feminist, I don't think I've ever used the word "vagina" in my writing. Cervix, a few times, as in "he bumped it--ouch," because there's just not any really good word for that bit of anatomy. I've done my bit for a feminist reclaiming of "pussy" but "vagina" is a term for OB visits, or for your doctor describing how many stitches you need after a difficutl childbirth, lol.

Vagina, as wonderful a part of the female body as it is... has no place in erotica, IMO. sensual is the key word here. And vagina just ain't it!

Big ole raspberry to those reviewers.

I'm going to echo the chorus. Vagina is a clinical word. If I came to a place where it fit, I'd use it I suppose, but it's just not sexy. Neither is penis for that matter. I sewar, the first image that would be likely to flash in my mind is the little boy in Kindergarten Cop saying "Boys have a penis and girls have a vagina." Funny in the movie, sure. Sexy and erotic? Uh, NO.